Jim Palmer:
Good afternoon, everybody. This is Captain Jim Palmer, the dream business coach coming to you from North Carolina as we slowly make our way north to the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve a wonderful guest today, Meghan Lynch and Meghan actually lives in the town where I grew up. It’s a very small world. Meghan is the founder and CEO of Six Point Creative, a brand strategy agency that helps second stage companies’ breakthrough growth plateaus, which is an interesting thing as part of her mission to help small business owners challenge the Goliaths, the behemoths, the big box or whatever it is in your niche. Meghan has served as an expert advisor to second stage clients in a wide range of industries from fast casual restaurants to industrial manufacturers. Meghan was named an enterprising woman of the year in 2019 and enjoys testing her limits as an endurance runner. Wow. Meghan, welcome to the show.
Meghan Lynch:
Hey, thanks for having me, Jim.
Jim Palmer:
It was so interesting, I would have killed half an hour just talking about Springfield, Massachusetts.
Meghan Lynch:
I know. I know, that was fun.
Jim Palmer:
It’s such a tiny town. My goodness. So anyway, so you were born and raised in Springfield, East Longmeadow?
Meghan Lynch:
Yes, indeed. Lived most of my life there.
Jim Palmer:
So, you graduated from East Longmeadow High School. And then did you go to college?
Meghan Lynch:
I did go to college. I went to Saint Anselm College in New Hampshire and went to Boston College for my master’s.
So I was an English major. I had no desire to be in business. I’m not even sure how and why I got here other than I was going down a Ph.D. track and kind of looked around and was like I think academia is like more corporate than corporate America. And I’m kind of like in my day job in marketing more and that was kind of all she wrote. My kind of standard joke is that I learned to read businesses instead of books, but kind of same skills of seeing patterns and kind of asking good questions and stuff like that.
Jim Palmer:
It’s so interesting, this will be episode 448 so I’ve interviewed a lot of people and I’m so amazed at how many people went to college for something, whether it’s accounting, lawyer, political science and they turn into an entrepreneur. It’s like, well, so much for that education, right? Or I’m sure maybe it helped in some way, so you didn’t have any parents or grandparents, did you have any entrepreneurial role models at all?
Meghan Lynch:
No. It’s funny, my mom was a teacher and my dad is an Episcopal priest. So, we were about as far away from a business mind as you could get.
Jim Palmer:
So Sunday morning you definitely went to church.
Meghan Lynch:
Exactly. Like it or not, whether I was awake or not, I was pulled out of bed, for sure.
Jim Palmer:
Oh, that’s funny. So when did you start Six-Point Creative? And was there some kind of a big event in your life? I interviewed somebody, David Phelps who just wrote a book and he talked about a lot of entrepreneurs who have a cataclysmic event, some people lose their jobs, some people it’s just whatever it is. What prompted you to say goodbye to the every other week paycheck?
Meghan Lynch:
Yeah. So for me, it was being kind of young enough not to know any better. I was working with my partners who I eventually started Six Point with at another agency and they got it, well, I kind of was cheerleading in the background for them to go out, do your own thing. You guys can do this. I’ll come work for you. And so they finally were like, “No, we’re going to do it. And we want you to come with us, but come as a partner, not as an employee.” And I was like, “Sure, yeah, why not? I don’t have anything else going.”
So, we just kind of left from there and they were both much more into the doing of the work. They were more like the creative types, writer, and designer team and I was more like working on the business and leading the business. So I really started to just get into that, the more I learned and kind of that trial and error, the frustration of learning on the fly and then realizing that there were people who could help you do it smarter, faster, better.
Jim Palmer:
So were they the creative ones and you kind of ran the business?
Meghan Lynch:
Exactly. I’ve always liked strategies, so I would kind of do sort of strategy consulting, and then as I started to get more knowledge about how to run and grow a business. My partners have both retired and now I’m in my own work. I really bring the business strategy and the brand and creative strategy together and that intersection of that is my sweet spot.
Jim Palmer:
Got you. Are you the rainmaker, are you the one that brings in the business, or is there somebody else?
Meghan Lynch:
Yeah, for the most part, I do the relationship development and we’ve got a bit of a system behind me, but for the most part, I like to connect with people on a personal level and we don’t have a ton of clients, we kind of handpick the companies that we want to work with. So it’s a lot of fun to meet people and get to know their stories and see what we can do to help.
Jim Palmer:
When you started out Meghan, did you look for clients locally in East Longmeadow, Longmeadow, Springfield, just keep going out from there? Or did you, obviously with the internet, you can attract clients anywhere.
Meghan Lynch:
Yeah, I mean, again, kind of this gets into sort of like my entrepreneurial journey and kind of where now Six Point is focused but when we first started, we were very kind of like general full-service marketing. We just had local accounts, in Western Mass and Connecticut and kind of stayed pretty close to our own area. And we’ve just got a reputation of being pretty easy to work with and providing good values. You kind of grow organically just through that word of mouth, somebody tells somebody, you pick up another client, you add another employee.
Then it was also probably about eight years in, we just hit a plateau where it was like, you kind of tapped out all of the companies that you want to work within the area, and you kind of start to hit the boundaries of your own network, you kind of know all the people who you’re going to know.
For us it was kind of like as my partners were starting to talk about transitioning out of the business, I was trying to decide like, well, they’re the real creative brainpower here, what the heck is this company going to be when it’s just me? So I took those two problems and sort of mushed them together and realize that as I was kind of working on what do I need to do to grow and scale this business and kind of lead it into its next generation of our business growth.
I started doing a lot more peer learning. Like I know you lead a mastermind group, those kinds of groups where you just start to hear from other business owners who are ready to be vulnerable about what they’re experiencing.
And I realized that number one, I wasn’t terrible at my job, and number two, that we were a thing that was called a second stage company and we had very predictable business growth pains. As soon as I learned that I was like, oh man, why didn’t somebody tell me that this was going to happen? I could have been prepared.
Jim Palmer:
It’s almost like when the doctor finally gives a name to what you’ve been experiencing.
Meghan Lynch:
Exactly. Just that relief of having it named and then you can move forward and problem solve it once you know what it is, once you have that diagnosis, it’s like, okay, well, if I’m this and there’s a solution to it, well now I’m just going to implement the solution. So that was kind of what we started to do with the company. And that was where I really focused Six Point on brand strategy and helping companies solve positioning problems to kind of unlock that business growth because that was a big game-changer for us, that kind of focus and expertise.
Also figuring out oh, I actually love these people who I’m in these peer groups with, they’re good people, they care about their communities. They care about their employees. They give back, they’re working super hard and just trying to do what they love. Then I would be talking about brand strategy, kind of bringing that to the peer group. Some people were like, “Oh, this is really helpful. We’ve never heard this before.” And I was like, maybe I can kind of combine these, these two things that I love and kind of make that sort of the next generation of Six Point. So that’s what we’ve done.
Jim Palmer:
So interesting in that term, a second-stage company. In one of your blog posts, I was checking out your website, it’s like, what the heck is a second stage company and I totally get it, but a lot of people might be going, what is a second stage company? Why don’t you explain that a little bit?
Meghan Lynch:
So a second stage company usually starts around when you have 10 employees, but the definition of is 10 to 100 employees, about a million to $50 million in revenue. Again, that varies a lot based on the industry so I find the number of employees is probably a better marker.
Basically what happens is you just start to experience different kinds of business growth pains. You probably grew organically and got business organically for a certain period of time and then all of a sudden the things that used to work so well when you were starting out now just don’t have the same result. So you’re kind of like, oh my gosh, we used to send out this mailing, or I used to go to these events and it used to be so meaningful. And now I’m not getting the same lead or sales results or business growth.
Or you might find you’ve kind of tapped out a niche like your food company that’s overly invested in the restaurant business and you need to diversify into retail or family business that’s kind of grown over time into a certain market. Then you realize, oh, there’s this whole new opportunity to do what we do in this market over here. But you’re not really positioned to like go after that business. So you start to kind of hit those business growth pains.
Then the other big things are systematic things you need to delegate the brand, the marketing, the sales, but every time you let it go as the owner, founder, other people just don’t do it as well and so it’s not as effective. It just kind of reinforces these patterns of see, I can’t give these people anything and this is why I have to stay involved. Nobody knows how to do this better than I do. When really it’s a matter of clarity. You’re not able to articulate what you want and how you want it and what the brand is and what it stands for in a way that other people can access it. It’s still kind of living too much in your head.
So, that’s what we work with owners and founders and teams to do is to start to pull those things out of that first-generation and start to pass it on to the second generation, whatever that might look like. It’s really fun work because it both empowers, let’s say like the marketing coordinator or the salespeople who have been frustrated right along with the owner. It also helps the owner take a step back and really enjoy watching their company grow and flourish without them having to work so hard for every single lead, every single sale, all those fun things.
Jim Palmer:
So you mentioned, I have the Dream Business mastermind and I’ve been coaching for 12 years. And it’s interesting to me that one of the things I’ve noticed after 100 or so clients is that they often don’t know what they need. It’s like they’re drawn to you because they have a prior relationship, they’ve heard of you or they see what you do, but then in the end they kind of need something else. I’m guessing that you have found that also with second-stage companies, they’re kind of plateaued but don’t know what, and they think, well, do I need a new brand? Do I need new marketing? Do I need what? And really in a lot of ways they need some internal systems and ways for the owner to actually remain the owner and not the floor sweeper like he was the first week he opened, right?
Meghan Lynch:
Exactly. I mean, in a lot of the conversations I have started out with, I think we might need to update our logo or I think we might need a new website or we just need a marketing plan to get into this market. The more we kind of work with them and do that kind of root cause analysis, the more they start to see if we just did a new logo now or a new website now that is not going to number one, solve the problem.
And number two, we aren’t even set up to engage because we see fabulous design shops and really great website companies and search engine companies who try to apply their expertise to the second stage companies, but they can’t articulate what they want. They can’t articulate what success looks like, what they do, or how they organize their products or anything. There are all these major questions that they can’t be clear on. So the person trying to design a logo or the person trying to do a website for somebody who can’t articulate what they want, it’s impossible for them to get the benefit of these people’s skillsets until they do some groundwork that really unlocks the ability to use expertise. Because that’s the other thing that second-stage companies need is they outgrow the kind of homegrown logo on Fiverr or the one that your cousin made.
Jim Palmer:
The niece who built the website, niece or nephew.
Meghan Lynch:
Those things were right for that time and place when you were starting up and that was what you needed. But then they start to outgrow them and they need somebody who really understands our ERP system or really understands how to integrate with Salesforce or you start to need specialists. Specialists need you to be clear though about what you need. So we can basically kind of help bridge that gap between the second stage company who needs the specialist expertise, whether it’s internal hiring it or external contracting it. Then help them get the most out of their people and others who they bring in to help them grow.
Jim Palmer:
Imagine the struggle for you though, Meghan, and please correct me if I’m wrong, is the person that’s coming in or the company coming in, they don’t know necessarily what they need because they have never been a second-stage company, even if they are by definition so they don’t really know what to ask for, is that right?
Meghan Lynch:
Yeah. And I think that it’s where it just becomes meeting people where they are. I think one of the things, again, having been there and having made those mistakes myself. I recognize them when they’re coming to me. So for me, a big thing isn’t to shut them down right away and be like, hey, you’re asking for a website, but hey, dummy, that’s not what you need. Instead of just being like, well tell me about why you need a website and what problem that’s going to solve for you, and just kind of meet them where they are and ask probing questions so that it becomes self-evident to them.
I find you ask a few good questions and these people are smart, you don’t build a successful business because you don’t know what you’re doing. You’ve just never experienced this problem before. So usually through some questioning, they start to see oh yeah, I see what you’re saying. This probably isn’t what I need. Ooh, yeah tell me more about this.
I think it’s just not shortcutting that journey for them, just respecting their brain enough to say you know what you need, you just need a little bit of guidance to help you make the right decision. That’s where a lot of companies really appreciate how we and I work with them that way, because sometimes if you go to a web development company and you say, I want a website, they’re going to sell you a website.
Jim Palmer:
Yes, exactly.
Meghan Lynch:
They can’t help it, that’s their job. For us, we just have a much broader toolkit of being able to really do that, take that time and do that due diligence to really match them with a solution, I was talking to somebody the other day and I got to the end, finally, I asked, “Have you been selling on Amazon?” And she’s like, “Yeah, our Amazon sales have really gone down over the past year.” And I was like, “Whoa”.
Jim Palmer:
Whoa, Amazon’s through the roof and you’re going down?
Meghan Lynch:
Exactly. Hold on. And she was calling me up for a marketing plan and I was like going to say you don’t need a marketing plan. You need Amazon’s help. That is low-hanging fruit sales that you need to be capturing and revenue that you need to be capturing.” So I hooked her up with an Amazon brand accelerator and I’m like, “Eventually, maybe we’ll work together, but first take care of this place where you’re just bleeding opportunity. Then let’s come back and do something.” I think she appreciated that I took the time to get to that root cause. She’s like, “Nobody’s ever said that to me.” I’m like, “Well, yeah, because you’re asking for a marketing plan. Why would somebody?”
Jim Palmer:
Yes. So where do brand and culture intersect? I mean, I think the culture initially is obviously with the entrepreneur who starts it, it’s him or her or whatever, but then second-stage companies, I mean, it really take on a life of their own, it has the company brand to a large degree.
Meghan Lynch:
It’s such a good question because we do see the overlapping of these a lot. In order to be able to delegate a brand and empower your people, you really need a strong and clear culture, people need to feel, there needs to be a high level of trust and people also need to be clear on what the company stands for and you need those right fit people. Because if you delegate the brand to, let’s say, sales representatives or customer service representatives, those people have an outsized effect on how customers, in whatever industry you’re in, feel about the brand and the company. Any brand interaction that is with individuals is person to person and is more than a few minutes long has a really, really lasting impact on how we perceive the brand as humans.
So for me, they almost become inextricably linked. You can’t kind of separate the brand and the culture. If you have a great brand, but a terrible culture that is not going to be a sustainable position to be in. If you have a great culture, but a terrible brand, then you have this asset that you are not leveraging. I think the two really go hand in hand. And we’ve done a lot of work, we’ll partner with culture experts if we feel like, oh, this company has opportunities, but they’re just not healthy. We’ve got people who excel at that, that we can kind of bring in and introduce them to, and kind of help them get the kind of back of the house in order before we do the front of the housework.
Jim Palmer:
Got you. What have you found, Meghan, as far as some of the fears that hold back, let’s say high potential companies from business growth, going beyond their initial roots, so to speak?
Meghan Lynch:
I think the biggest one is that when you are at second stage and you’ve had success and you’ve started to build up a team, you now have something to lose. When you are an entrepreneur and it’s just you, or it’s you, and one or two other people, you’ve got nothing to lose, it is do or die. You just go for it and everything’s an opportunity and it’s kind of fun and free in that way. One of the big things that we find is that companies who start to hit second stage and get larger, you’ve got 10, 20, 30, 40 people depending on you for income, now, all of a sudden, every decision you make is loaded. And so it’s like, oh, well, we could enter this market, but these other customers, they pay everybody’s salary, so are they going to freak out when we try to penetrate this other market. Then they’re going to leave us and then I’ve just destroyed everything that I’ve spent so many years building up?
They feel like big problems and they feel like real problems, but they can be solved very easily. Companies pivot markets all the time and it’s really a matter of putting together a strong communication plan, really training your team. These are the things that we will walk companies through of like, hey, if you want to pivot into a new market, here’s the way you do it in a way that engages your existing customers and brings them closer to you so that they become allies in it. It also opens up a new market for you with positioning and a plan. So you can have both, but I think companies often feel like they have to choose one or the other. Either I’m going to choose business growth or I’m going to choose to protect what I’ve built. I feel like our job is to say yes, we can do both of those things.
Jim Palmer:
Right. We got about three or four minutes. I want to keep jamming as many questions as I can while I have you. I know on your website, I saw this thing called Solve for Y, the letter Y. Is that like your mantra or is that how you approach business with new clients or?
Meghan Lynch:
So Solve for Y basically is this brand program for second stagers that I developed. I developed it on Six Point when we were kind of making our big pivot, so I kind of practiced it on ourselves first of how would I, as an entrepreneur get clear, how do I empower my team? How do we pivot our positioning in a way that brings us closer together and brings our customers closer to us?
We basically just took that and then we’ve applied it on lots of second-stage companies and have really codified it and dialed it in. So it’s like our process that we walk people through how to solve that seemingly impossible question of saving what we have and grow into this new future that is going to be the next generation.
Jim Palmer:
One of the challenges I’ve helped a lot of my clients with, I’m just curious if it happens for you also is, they don’t charge enough for the value of what they’re doing.
Meghan Lynch:
Yes, and I think the brand is a big piece of solving that problem, price sensitivity, which is directly related to how strong your brand and positioning are. I’m sure this is exactly what you see too, as a marketer, that the more clear you are on the value you bring, and the more clear you are on what makes you different, and the more clear you are on who your ideal client is and how well you know that customer, that’s what allows you to charge that price premium. It also allows customers to not be price sensitive so that you’re not constantly doing that race to the bottom. And for a lot of companies, there’s just so much pressure to commoditize that in order our mantra is that challenge the Goliaths mentality. In order to challenge the big guys, we’ve got to be more focused, we’ve got to be more nimble, we’ve got to be more specialized, again, regardless of what kind of business you’re in.
Jim Palmer:
Well, I could talk to you for a long time, but the clock dictates everything. So I’m sure people want to follow up with you. I’m thinking of a website, or you mentioned you may have a landing page where people get a little more information.
Meghan Lynch:
Yeah, exactly. Our website is sixpointcreative.com. If you just go to sixpointcreative.com/dreambusiness, there is a quiz that you can take if you think you might be a second stage company, but you’re not sure, or kind of want to get a scorecard on where you stand there, we’ll put together a customized report for you for free. There are also some other tools, a little eBook that you can download or we’ll ship you a hard copy. And a couple of other tools that those folks can use that are particularly helpful for second-stage companies that are looking for business growth. So just some tools and resources.
Jim Palmer:
sixpointcreative.com/dreambusiness, see, there’s some good creative right there. Meghan, thank you so much. Really a pleasure talking with you today.
Meghan Lynch:
Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Jim Palmer:
Hey, folks that wrap up this very special interview with Meghan Lynch from Six Point Creative. I am Captain Jim Palmer, the dream business coach, and connect with me at getjimpalmer.com. Www.getjimpalmer.com. If you are interested in the dream business mastermind, that is dream biz coaching, dream B-I-Z coaching.com. But until this time next week, another fantastic interview. You take good care.